Us vs. Them
February 22, 2007
I got this comment in response to my previous post and I think it’s something that merits further discussion and consideration.
“I think AIDS is horrible, and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. My question is, why are we spending so much time, money and energy worrying about people in Africa? We’ve got national debt of something like $11 trillion (with a “T”), a house and senate who are spending money like lunatics and whatever special interest group they have to so that they can get support for reelection, and 70% of Americans can’t name even 1 of their state’s Senators. Let’s spend some of that money fixing our own countries problems (like paying off our national debt), THEN worry about Africa. There is no end to the list of needy people and countries, and their terrible problems. If you want to help fight AIDS in Africa, go for it with your own money, but quit pushing politicians to spend MY hard earned tax dollars on it.”
I agree, AIDS is horrible. I also agree our government is terribly inefficient and it squanders money right and left. And national debt isn’t really a great thing, either. The fact is that as a country we’re really not dumping huge amounts of money into helping the problem of AIDS in Africa, particularly relative to the national debt. It’s even less than a drop in the bucket. Also, I don’t have much expertise in economics (any knowledgeable econ people out there care to comment?) but wouldn’t paying off the entirety of our national debt really throw off our economy? Not to mention the fact that it’s probably economically unfeasible to begin with…
Here are some numbers and statistics though:
“The U. S. Global AIDS Coordinator’s mission is to lead implementation of the U.S. President’s Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (Emergency Plan/PEFPAR). The Emergency Plan is the largest commitment ever by any nation for an international health initiative dedicated to a single disease — a five-year, $15 billion, multifaceted approach to combating the disease around the world. Please visit www.PEPFAR.gov for additional information regarding the Emergency Plan.”
This is a substantial amount of money, no doubt. But compare it to our debt that our fiscally conservative commentator estimates as “something like 11 trillion.” It’s chump change, really.
This is survey from WorldPublicOpinion.org is interesting and makes a strong point as well:
“More significantly, when Americans are asked how much of their tax dollars they would favor going to Africa, they propose an amount that is far in excess of the actual amount. When the January 2003 PIPA/Knowledge Networks poll asked, “How many of your tax dollars would you be willing to have go to economic and humanitarian aid for African countries?” the median response was $20. This is more than six times the actual amount–in fact, approximately $3 of the median taxpayer’s bill goes to aid to Africa. Sixty-seven percent proposed an amount in excess of $3.” [3a]
For full survey stats, go to:
http://www.americans-world.org/digest/regional_issues/africa/africa3.cfm
So really, this guy is complaining about forking over about three bucks each year to help people in Africa.
Also, I have so admit that I don’t think much of Bush, but he has done something useful by increasing aid to African countries; have a look: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/30/AR2006123000941.html
So go ahead, cry in your tea, fiscal conservatives. In my opinion, it’s money put to good use.
Now, what really bothers me most about this comment is the author’s inherent “us before them” mentality. Are people really so attached to their native country (be it the U.S. or any other) to the point that they identify themselves by their nationality far above and beyond identifying themselves as simply a member of the human race? Is there a perceived threat that people with this attitude associate with giving aid to people in other countries? I don’t see these two problems as even comparable…hmm…national debt, versus death and squalor and suffering that can be alleviated with basic health support and awareness programs. Country issues aside, which is more immediately important? What if the AIDS epidemic was as bad in the US? Would this person still advocate focusing on issues like national debt in that case? If not (which I would suspect to be the case) this infers that the person values individual American lives over those of people in other countries or of other races. This starts to sound a little bit like the logic of a certain little man with a broom mustache, wouldn’t you agree? This brings to mind a quote from the movie Hotel Rwanda. The UN colonel, out of the sheer frustration in explaining why the world will not intervene, says to Paul Rusesabagina, “You’re black. You’re not even a nigger. You’re an African.”
Why is this attitude of “us” and “the other” so predominant? Haven’t we learned from the past? Mankind has one collective future, so every problem that mankind faces should be of universal concern.
Entry Filed under: A Closer Walk, AIDS, Haiti, India, Robert Bilheimer, South Africa, Uganda, Universal Responsibility, epidemiology, global health, humanitarianism, politics. .
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1.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:07 pm
besbesgeminor, 30M, Straight, Perry, Georgia, United States; Yesterday, 11:33pm:
The problem is that your poster is under the assumption that spending on AIDS treatment around the world is a worthless drain on national treasure. The viewpoint from most policy analysts — not the ones online — is that a disease like AIDS is destabilizing in portions of the world that we don’t want to fall into chaos. The infection rates in Africa are frighteningly high. Children grow up without parents; the local country’s infrastructure breaks down, and the society just implodes. Instability leads to conflict principally manifested as either anarchy or war. You look at India and the patent fights over AIDS drugs and combination therapies for pennies on the dollar so that some kid can live another day without having to pay GSK royalty fees. If you believe the logic of Dick Cheney, deficits don’t matter. We’re supposedly using financial leverage to achieve certain policy goals. We have other interest in Africa besides Ethiopian coffee beans for Star Bucks. From your profile, you seem to have a distaste for unregulated capitalism. That stance is warranted. Oddly enough, it’s today’s globally connected markets that has made us more sensitive to problems in the rest of the world. Of the industrialized countries, only Australia has managed to achieve zero public debt. They were only able to do this because they have a small population, and benefited geatly from the rise in commodities prices for metals raw materials. That aside, you can’t have a large economy without debt, that is one of the reasons why we went off the gold standard. Anyhow, the world is complicated and we make compromises on our ideals to a degree just to achieve what little that can be called progress. Sincerely, BB
2.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:08 pm
stealingjoy, 26M, Straight, Oxford, Ohio, United States; Yesterday, 11:40pm:
What’s really unfortunate about the money being sent over to Africa for AIDS prevention is that a large portion of it is earmarked for abstinence only programs, which will only serve to increase the rate of infection, not decrease it. US aid can make a huge difference, but when the people in charge are more concerned about morality than saving lives, it’s hard to feel that great about how that money is being spent.
Random side note: One of my most indelible images is of one of the UN commanders (maybe the lead one, not sure) in Rwanda being forced to leave the country. He had asked for a pittance of troops (10k maybe, I forget the number) that would have repelled the genocide but he was denied (there’s a good book on this which I have also forgot the name of). But as he’s getting ready to leave in a UN chopper, he goes in front of a camera, takes off his beret and cuts it open with his knife before tossing it to the ground. Now, there’s a statement.
3.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:08 pm
atropa777, 22F, Straight, Ypsilanti, Michigan, United States; Yesterday, 11:57pm:
This is also why any donation of time or money to organizations that operate programs handing out male and female condoms is incredibly important. Anything, really. An hour, a $20 bill, it’s all needed.
4.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:09 pm
NewbieSubATL, 34M, Straight, Woodstock, Georgia, United States; Today,12:01am:
I retort. This is not an “us before them” mentality. The point is: “Where does it end?” I admire your passion and believe that you have every right to want to support any cause that pricks your conscience. I have my own list of things that are important to me, that I give my hard earned dollars to, though I would never dream of wanting the Federal Gov’t to make YOU spend YOUR hard earned dollars and causes that are important to ME. What about the countless millions in China, or the Middle East? How about Central and So. America and the lengthy list of injustices and suffering that those people endure. Is it America’s job to come to their rescue too? We’re already the “world police” (much to my chagrin). Are we supposed to be the “world rescue organization” as well? Where were all of these countries when WE needed help after Katrina? The only country I’m aware of sending any help was England. There may be others, but it certainly wasn’t China, or India, or Mexico, or any other country on the long list that we send staggering sums of money to every year. But I digress. I have one request. Please find out how much of the money we send to Africa actually goes to the people which it was intended. Since history is a good teacher, I would be shocked if a large chunk of it doesn’t end up on the hands of Africa’s tin-hat dictatorships to help them keep their personal off-shore bank accounts topped off. One good example of this is the millions of dollars we sent to Mogadishu. You will be hard pressed to find much of that money having gone to feed any of the starving population. It’s not about a paltry $3.00. It’s the principal of the matter. Our government makes little effort to ensure that the money they collect from us, then redistribute to the “less fortunate” other countries is spent in a responsible manner, and that it goes to the people which it was intended. If you are looking for some good charity organizations that help people in other countries, organizations that will truly be thankful and responsible with every single penny you send them, I’ll be glad to send a few suggestions. Please…keep your passion, but refocus your efforts away from relying on U.S. Federal Government to solve the worlds problems, and focus on groups and organizations that really WILL do what you are seeking. You’ll get a lot more bang for your buck.
5.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:09 pm
b3tt3rman, 30M, Straight, Saint Cloud, Florida, United States; Today,12:13am:
Isn’t it amazing that we’ll be proactive in raiding another country because we don’t like the government they run. And we’ll spend billions and billions of dollars on that and at the last numbers over 3000 American lives in such an endeavor. But we get upset at irradicating a disease that is absolutely devastating. And being proactive, we can take care of the problem there, try to take care of the problem here, and hopefully get rid of one more disease that afflicts so many human lives. If we don’t try to help fight this disease wherever it exists, then it will one day end up in our very own homes.
6.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:10 pm
adkgirl, 23F, Straight, Georgia, United States; Today,12:25am:
NewbieSubATL, I wasn’t necessarily advocating government spending in my original post. In my response to your comment, I simply addressed the main economic point that you brought up with economic info in turn. I threw in the Bush link mainly out of interest and relevance to the topic. Personally I would be much happier giving money to independent nonprofits that do work directly in Africa rather than to the US government to disperse through their own means. I think they’re capable of doing a lot more good, and more effectively. However I think it IS in the US interest to try to maintain stability in all the different parts of the world, as something like AIDS could very easily lead to massive social and economic destabilization down the line. And this would be even more expensive when later humanitarian and military intervention would likely be required. It’s just what with such an interconnected world, and global economy, epidemics on other continents are simply bound to affect us somewhere along the line of their progression, that’s all.
7.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Ashcans, 23M, Straight, Atlanta, Georgia, United States; Today,12:38am:
Actually, NewbieSubATL, you are completely wrong about Katrina. Almost a hundred countries around the world offered aid and funding to the United States after the Hurricane hit, including *all three* of the ones you mentioned. Yes, thats right, Mexico, India, and China were there for you. In fact, a fair number of nations offered aid and funding they really couldn’t afford precisely because America had helped them in the past. You may also want to see my post in the previous entry about precisely why this issue requires government involvement; no charity in the world has the power or authority to force pharmaceutical companies to allow generic versions of the needed AIDS cocktails. As long as the US government is working to impose intellectual property law in these situations, this is very much a federal issue. Not all government involvement in the AIDS struggle involves your wallet, and while I can appreciate that you have an entirely different world view from me, its pure fact that America already has its hands in this mess. Shouldn’t it at least be on the right side? Stealingjoy, you’re probably thinking of Commander Dellaire, and the book is likely ‘Shaking Hands with the Devil’. I’m not going to get started on Rwanda, though.
8.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:10 pm
knitbit13, 24F, Bisexual, Ballwin, Missouri, United States; Today, 1:04am:
You know, I’ve had countless debates on this very topic. I do believe it is very important to help others who are less fortunate than us, but I know millions of those people are right here in the US. I’ve never been much of a patriotic person, I don’t bleed red, white and blue, but I do stand by the idea that it’s silly to send any GOVERNMENT money overseas when we should be helping people right here at home. What about the families in Appalachia with no running water? What about the children in cities all over the US that are dying of AIDS because their parents can’t afford insurance? What about all the government “sex ed” programs here that are failing due to their abstinence-based teachings? How can our government “fix” ANY other country if we can’t even fix our own? There are countries whose government has made sure there is a decent sex-ed program available for students and great clinics available for people seeking information/testing/preventitive methods and they don’t have nearly the problems we do. No, they aren’t going out trying to save the world, but they don’t have high AIDS rates and they don’t have tons of unwanted pregnancies. Simply put, my biggest problem with the US trying to stabilize any country is that we A.) Don’t seem to being doing that great a job in Iraq (and African nation) and B.) Don’t seem to be doing that great a job here either.
9.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:10 pm
Astrotrekker, 57M, Straight, Pensacola, Florida, United States; Today, 1:08am:
Check out http://www.marianne.com
10.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:11 pm
atropa777, 22F, Straight, Ypsilanti, Michigan, United States; Today, 1:34am:
Knit, there is a real danger to a practical sort of nationalist concern that you are advocating. The US is not able to sustain itself, economically or politically. If I’m correct, you’re thinking of some countries that have socialized healthcare like Britain and the nordic countries. Part of why they don’t have such high AIDs rates is due to cultural mores, not only a better form of government. Just because we haven’t reached a zen-like utopia here doesn’t mean that we can’t help out others who are far, far worse off than the families in the mountains without running water.
11.
adkgirl06 | February 22, 2007 at 5:11 pm
ive_been_high, 25M, Straight, Murfreesboro, Tennessee, United States; Today, 8:26am:
In addition to Mexico, India, and China, other countries offered aid that was refused. Fidel Castro (a real evil man, at least according to the last forty years of our media) offered to send 1000 doctors to the United States the day after Katrina hit… Bush’s repsonse? No. The “evil” man in Venezuela, Hugo Chavez, offered gasoline and several million dollars. Bush’s response? No. That is absolutely ridiculous. Imagine how much positive work could be done were defense budgets of the world dedicated to researching diseases, providing drinkable water to the ~20% that doesn’t have it, solving polution problems, etc.
12.
adkgirl06 | February 23, 2007 at 3:15 am
CaliNeuroTrash, 27M, Straight, Berkeley, California, United States; Today, 1:11pm:
I think both you and NewbieSubATL have valid points. One one had, its not right for a world leader to be stingy with aid, but on the other hand, the money can fall into the wrong hands all to easily. I think the compromise lies in thinking about where that $3 can have the greatest impact. If we spend the money on domestic research, then people all over the world can benefit from treatment strategies developed, plus it will help the economy. Already some very promising interventions have come out. As far as the whole forcing-me-to-pay-for-your-projects-with-my-money argument goes, get over it, it’s called taxation. I guarantee something you hold dear is being subsidized on some level. It’s the price we pay for having a civilization.
13.
adkgirl06 | February 23, 2007 at 3:18 am
malkav07, 23M, Straight, Tampa, Florida, United States; Today, 6:21pm:
Until aid to Africa becomes a main political issue in the States, politicians will toss money at the problem to help their resume out. Politics is about telling people how to live. That may sound heavy-handed, but it’s true. More importantly, it’s good AND bad.
Our democracy allows us to vote for people who we can trust to wield their common sense properly when it comes to current issues and crises. All 250 million of us can’t agree on how to properly balance the budget, for instance. So it’s good that we have politicians, but it’s bad when they only take care of the issues that got them into office in the first place.
So to force the issue, someone needs to bring attention to the media on a slow news day. Now is the best time too because the next election is a very open one.
The true strength of society is to coerce the public into doing necessary things that each individual may not do on their own. There’s no law against being selfish. Taxing every American 20 bucks and spending it *efficiently* would go very far in fighting AIDS in Africa. It’s gonna take an entire nation, and then some, to help out an entire continent.
14.
elpolaco | February 25, 2007 at 3:18 am
I’m amazed at the amount of idealism I find on this blog. Am I really such a sceptic or have I been reading too much P. J. O’Rourke … and his dim views about college student idealism.
I have been to the so called third-world, e.g., Thailand. My impression was that the world is in fact split into two: us and them.
In fact, I have read many authoritative books, even by left wing radicals, who agree with this: the world is divided into the poor and the rich.
America is rich, and so is in position to offer ‘aid’ to poor countries only because the other countries are poor.
College graduates couldn’t complain about this if these countries weren’t poor because … well, because then they wouldn’t be college students, since there wouldn’t be any colleges for them to go to, except for the privileged elite numbering around a 100.
It is, e.g., a common belief that poverty is not alleviated by aid from 1st world countries: its created by them, and it is arguable that that aid actually contributes to this.
I have no qualms about the sentiments, just the logic. The woman who hates her money being spent on AIDS in Africa does so because she wants to spend it on college education for her kids so that they can have the luxury of being idealistic while they can reap the benefit of being an educated person and going to Africa to work for an NGO.
15.
mahmoud | July 25, 2007 at 1:53 pm
hi
i saw a closer walk from Robert Bilheimer and i like it,if possible please let me knoe email adrees of Mr Robert Bilheimer .i need talk with him
the best
mahmoud sani